[PlanetCCRMA] [Fedora-music-list] audio/media related reports to bugzilla.redhat.com ignored?

[Niels Mayer]

Also tired of "Warning: Unable to create "trees" RDF
storage.//Performance can be improved by upgrading librdf" and
inspired by Simon's message, I asked about the issue on #kde-fedora
there's the possibility of advocating on this issue here:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=565329
("openoffice dependency on old redland / raptor / rasqal versions") as
well as in other specific bugs we file on packages part of fedora that
could be affected.

Note conversation below from #kde-fedora.... lets please help move
this issue along by filing bugs, and providing good information on
existing ones, and please note the offer made to me and all of us
complaining here -- file bugs and make it clear why this is important,
and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter ) will be on the case for
advocating a fix on this issue for F12.

....................
[10:58] <npm> Requesting update to redland 1.0.10 from obsolete/slow
1.0.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496323
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=562645
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=610181
[11:00] <rdieter> npm : you're asking the wrong people, I'm for it,
but we need buy-in from others too (like ooo)
[11:06] <rdieter> .bug 565329
[11:06] <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 565329 openoffice dependency on old
redland / raptor / rasqal versions -
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=565329
[11:06] <rdieter> npm: ^^ I asked for feedback from ooo maintainer(s)
here. we can see what they have to say
[11:07] <rdieter> npm: I'm curious, you keep mentioning that an udpate
is required for multimedia apps.  do you have details?  which apps,
what are the problems?  (and ideally, are these issues being tracked
via open bugs ? )
[11:10] <npm> anything that uses plugins uses RDF to describe the
plugin: two leading examples: ardour.x86_64     2.8.10-1.fc12
@updates    .... qtractor.x86_64     0.4.6-1.fc12
rpmfusion-free-updates
[11:11] * npm wonders if oget has something to say about this
[11:13] <rdieter> npm : so... no bugs yet? (hint hint) :)
[11:13] <npm> rdieter: in addition to ardour, qtractor, possibly kdenlive
[11:14] <oget> npm: the OOo guys don't want to switch to the new
redland. They don't consider it stable in F-12. However, for some
reason, they consider it stable in F-13.
[11:14] <npm> i was trying to figure out a way of listing my apps with
the library dependency
[11:14] <oget> npm: that's the reason they put in front of us
[11:14] <npm> that sounds bogus
[11:14] <npm> as reas
[11:14] <npm> on
[11:14] <npm> just when i thought i had absolurtely no reason to
switch to f13 yet :-)
[11:14] <rdieter> well, maybe stable enough for f13, but want to play
it safer for f12.
[11:15] <oget> so far nobody was able to convince them. I tried, Simon
Lewis tried, Kevin Kofler tried...
[11:15] <npm> interesting ...
[11:18] <npm> oget / rdieter : well it's nice to see the kde-side of
the house at least trying to handle this kind of stuff... this came up
because i'd complained that media-related issues go into /dev/null,
except if they're kde related and then at least people acknowledge the
bugs
[11:20] <rdieter> ok, maybe being clearer about what the problems are,
and documenting (via bugs whatever) may help convince them.
[11:20] <npm> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.music/547/match=
[11:20] <rdieter> Until I asked just now, I wasn't aware of the
details involved either.
[11:22] <npm> i think the rest of fedora ought to be following your
model of quickly acknowledging and communicating about bugs.. vs...
ones that stay in "new" forever, and end up being my own personal
micro-blog about a particular issue
[11:23] <rdieter> sure, agreed.  for some pkgs and maintainers, it
would seem they have other priorities or need help wrt bug triage.
[11:23] <rdieter> heck, we all could use more help when it comes to that
[11:24] <Kevin_Kofler> F13 already has a redland with the current
sonames (unless upstream bumped them again).
[11:24] <npm> they need to be told there is a model that includes
"triage" and de-deplicating in the first place, it seems.
[11:24] <Kevin_Kofler> Only F12 is affected.
[11:24] <Kevin_Kofler> I think we should just update Redland and then
tell them to rebuild OO.o or even just do it ourselves.
[11:24] <npm> yes
[11:24] <Kevin_Kofler> They more or less gave us permission to do
that, even though they complained about the plan.
[11:25] <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: if it were anything not as big and
visible as ooo, I'd be tempted to do just that
[11:25] <Kevin_Kofler> (They said "if you decide to bump the lib,
we'll rebuild, we have no other choice anyway, but we don't like it"
(paraphrasing).)
[11:25] <rdieter> has the redland maintainer commented here at all?
[11:25] <npm> it would be nice... the thing is, performant audio and
video apps are a "big and visible" just not in an area that redhat may
care to invest in
[11:26] <rdieter> if we can get a definitive statements something like
"redland-1.0.7 is junk, yes upgrade already!", then justifying things
will be a lot easier
[11:27] <Kevin_Kofler> Uh, who is the primary maintainer?
[11:27] <Kevin_Kofler> .whoowns redland
[11:27] <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: thomasvs
[11:27] <Kevin_Kofler> Thomas is one of those "almost but not quite
AWOL" maintainers.
[11:27] <Kevin_Kofler> I don't think he'll reply, ever.
[11:27] <npm> i believe i saw the behavior of the very-long wait on
redland rdf scan the first time i ran 'gst123' on a computer ...
something in gstreamer (memory fuzzy on this) was invoking it, i
believe
[11:28] <npm> or perhaps it was the app that had plugins... first
time, or on change, i think you see a terrible performance hit, as if
the app isn't working
[11:28] <npm> but in fact if you wait long enough, it starts up, after
scanning directories of plugins that use rdf to describe themselves
[11:28] <rdieter> npm: ok, make you a deal, document all the badness
with various apps using redland-1.0.7 (preferably via bugs)
[11:28] <rdieter> and then I'll make the case that an update is crucial
[11:28] <rdieter> and work to make it happen
[11:29] <npm> excellent. in order to enlist help, can i re-post this
conversation to the fedora-music-list ?
[11:29] <rdieter> tis ok with me
[11:29] <npm> thank you.... you all rock!
[11:30] <rdieter> npm : you rock too, sorry your persistence took this
long to pay off. :)
[11:31] <rdieter> with all the different players and moving pieces,
it's hard to see the big picture issue(s) here.  hopefully, we can
fill in the blanks, and get everyone on the same page and working
together.
[11:33] <npm> excellent.... this is the way opensource is supposed to be!
[11:33] <oget> rdieter: bugs 565329 and 591841 contain most of the
discussion. I don't want to update redland on F-12 without their
approval. No need to breed hostility.
[11:33] <rdieter> .bug 565329
[11:33] <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 565329 openoffice dependency on old
redland / raptor / rasqal versions -
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=565329
[11:33] <rdieter> .bug 591841
[11:33] <zodbot> rdieter: Bug 591841 Please, please, please update
Redland > 1.0.8 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=591841
[11:39] <rdieter> in bug 565329 , luis backported some of the
important changes to redland-1.0.7 it seems, maybe we can just use
that?
..........

Niels
http://nielsmayer.com

PS: Incidentally, this is not an issue for F13, which may be a reason
to ditch the comforts of F12 and into the wilds of F13 ... or it may
be a case for running the f13 redlands lib on F12 (??) and
uninstalling openoffice and install koffice instead.