[PlanetCCRMA] drop outs with FC8 and latest CCRMA kernel

bH atorima at vfemail.net
Thu Jan 3 23:38:01 2008

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Lamar Owen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite"><br>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">F8 should be supported through 2008 and to early 2009.
Well, thats fine but, I'm not going to wipe a working to system just to
jump on the latest release.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap=""> Meanwhile, I have Fedora 6 on my laptop. 
  <pre wrap=""><!---->[snip]
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap=""> I however, refuse to re-install, reconfigure, tune and get 
a stable system that works just because, Fedora, has the latest, greatest,
out for all to beta test.
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
Whew, sorry for touching a nerve.
Your not touching, anything.&nbsp; I think your missing the mark, completely.<br>
What I was trying to get across is- What is it that makes a good,
stable, DAW, capable of low-latency, high performance? <br>
1. Being a beta tester in a production environment is not a good idea. <br>
&nbsp;If you want to play with software, fine. If you want to make music
esp. with a client sitting in the studio next to you- that is not the
time to test the latest kernel or, upgrade to a new, untested, release.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">The
point is, once built for Ubuntu 7.10, it has to be rebuilt for 8.04,
then <br>
  <pre wrap="">8.10 (or whatever), and so on; you don't gain anything going to Ubuntu, as it 
is just as fast moving as Fedora is in terms of support; the repo would still 
have to be rebuilt every six months, as packages for 7.04 may or may not work 
for 7.10 (and packages for 6.06 will definitely not work for 7.10 or the 
upcoming 8.04).

But all of that is moot; PlanetCCRMA is currently an RPM repository, and the 
effort required for changing to be a Debian repository is significant; 
probably a lot harder than keeping up with Fedora (this is something I know a 
little bit about; I packaged PostgreSQL RPM's for Red Hat Linux and Fedora 
from 1999 up through 2004; I investigated Debian packaging, and it is very 
very different from RPM packaging.  Now, nando is a very bright fellow; I 
have no doubts he is capable to doing that.  The bigger question is whether 
he wants to do so.  
No, the point is I use RH/Fedora because thats what, CCRMA, uses.&nbsp; I
have for a long time.&nbsp; I have Fedora, Ubuntu and other systems. I'm
about to try out the 64 Studio, release (which is a custom
Debian-based, multimedia orientated distro , not "Ubuntu")&nbsp; just to
check it out but, NOT on the box, I use for production.&nbsp; <br>
Let's get this clear- I was just responding to a concern that I and
others have raised about Fedora.&nbsp; I'm not an Ubuntu fanboy, or
something.&nbsp; I'm not pushing one thing for another. I don't really care
about all that or, if its ".rpm" or ".deb"&nbsp; What I do care about though
is one day, walking into world class studio and seeing something like
"Ardour" running on a Gnu/Linux system as opposed to Nuendo/PT on a
Windows or, Apple system (and maybe, wiping the smirks off the smug,
mugs of some peoples that think if it's not "Mac"or "Pro Tools" its
something wacky)&nbsp; But, building and configuring a Gnu/Linux audio
system is no small task. It's getting
better but, still requires a lot of work.&nbsp; For that matter, so do all
the other systems. Despite the glossy marketing... so, whether it's
Steinburg or, Fedora , open or, proprietary, or whatever, it doesn't
matter.&nbsp; Beta testing on a 'work' system is just asking for trouble and
I've been feeling, strongly, that "Fedora" is nothing but, a beta test
and this is -NOT an optimal situation- for a solid, working DAW and if
I wish to raise the issue on the ccrma list, I can and will.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
Further, there are already Debian packagers for some of this; you should 
really talk to them about updating their versions, rather than muddy the 
currently well-unified repository waters for Ubuntu.  That is really the 
major advantage over Fedora that Ubuntu has; Fedora's repositories have 
historically been somewhat fractured.
What are you talking about?&nbsp; I don't have "to talk to the Debian
packagers" about anything or, anyone else and further, how is it that I
am to-<br>
<pre wrap="">"muddy the currently well-unified repository waters for Ubuntu." ?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm not sure you know what your
talking about.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
However, there is work ongoing to merge PlanetCCRMA RPM's into Fedora itself, 
which would lessen nando's work load.  This I'm sure he looks forward to!
I don't know what "Nando" is looking forward to. Maybe, lying on a
beach, with a fruity drink that has a funny umbrella in it, strumming
his guitar and not worry about any of this however, if it were up to
me- I would increase his workload to 24/7 on-call, to answer every
silly question I have like, how will merging "PlanetCCRMA RPM's into
Fedora itself" make it a better DAW? and "Does it mean I can finally,
get a nvidia driver from livna to match my R/T kernel"? or, Do I really
need sendmail on a Daw? or, SELinux? Aren't those the people who spy on
me? or, "Why is it so, blue"?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Now, the latency could be due to other things set up in the PlanetCCRMA kernel 
and other libs versus the Ubuntu linux-rt kernel; don't know.  It would be 
interesting to see what the .config for the Ubuntu rt kernel looks like 
versus the PlanetCCRMA one.

I myself am having issues with the F8 PlanetCCRMA rt kernel; I'm running F7 on 
my main DAW desktop for now, but will be upgrading probably next week, as 
things are stable enough at this point for my uses.  I'll probably forgo the 
rt kernel for now, as my uses currently don't require the low latency.
Thats all interesting, fine and well but, I for one, wouldn't pay you
for studio time while you try to figure it out.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200801032104.46296.lowen@pari.edu" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">
I for one am thrilled with what nando has been doing for the last several 
years; many thanks, nando!
Thats one thing I can agree with you on. Without, Fernando at CCRMA, <strike>many</strike>
most of us would be well and truly, <strike>f%3k'ed</strike>. Lost.&nbsp;
However, Fernando and CCRMA aside, I can't say that I've been all that
thrilled with, Fedora, as a platform for a DAW, so far but, maybe its
good enough for you.<br>