A point;<br><br>Stanford is the world renowned and recognised resource on computer music, so why is Fedora doing the packaging?<br><br>I really liked the first paragraph of the first post, summed things up perfectly. <br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <<a href="mailto:nando@ccrma.stanford.edu">nando@ccrma.stanford.edu</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 09:19 -0400, Mike Mazarick wrote:<br>
> I had issues with getting sound to come out from either the newly<br>
> minted linux drivers or from the Via onboard chipset (although the Via<br>
> soundcard seemed to work better, it had more latency). One of the<br>
> big issues was trying to figure out from the Jack messages, the<br>
> dmesgs, or the scsconfig.log or scsrun.log what the issues were.<br>
<br>
</div>The Jack error and warning messages are not the most friendly ones in<br>
the universe... You should see the ones that the experimental jackmp<br>
prints..., they are even more cryptic :-)<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> So far, I've de-installed anything related to pulse-audio (because of<br>
> Jack messages, and because it seems to default to 2 audio channels<br>
> running 44.1khz). I'm also very wary of 'new' stuff, and noticed<br>
> that this is supposed to be a replacement for Jack.<br>
<br>
</div>Pulse Audio? No, Pulse Audio is not meant to replace Jack.<br>
<br>
It has a very different goal, which is to provide a unified way in which<br>
desktop applications can share the audio i/o. It has been tried many<br>
times before, but it looks like this time this solution is gathering<br>
momentum. I'm sure some other big project will come up with a newer<br>
brighter idea, and an incompatible one so that we are back to square<br>
one :-P<br>
<br>
I _think_ Pulse Audio has/will have a way to connect to Jack, ie: be a<br>
jack client by itself. But I'm not sure.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, Jack was never intended to be an "audio daemon" for<br>
the desktop. It does not have the right stuff for that. So Pulse Audio<br>
or something similar is still needed.<br>
<br>
Pulse Audio can be managed through a control panel and it can be made to<br>
release the audio resources so that other programs (for example Jack)<br>
can use them.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> I'd just as soon wait until it is known and proven to be better than<br>
> Jack (I just switched from CVS to SVN last month). I also disabled<br>
> the firewall, because I didn't want to spend many hours googling<br>
> issues only to discover it is 'security' related (I need to get X out<br>
> of the system and on to a PC, for instance). Fedora is really a beta<br>
> release for RedHat, so, you are always on the 'bleeding edge' for a<br>
> few months until the fixes come out.<br>
<br>
</div>It is an it is not (a beta for redhat). It was more so at the beginning<br>
of the Fedora project. Still, it is by no means a "conservative"<br>
distribution :-) It is in the bleeding edge and that has good and bad<br>
vibes associated with it.<br>
<br>
There are many decisions Fedora took that I hate and that affected audio<br>
apps. Sigh. Maybe it is time to start learning debian packaging :-)<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> I can understand permissions and ownership, but I don't necessarily<br>
> understand how you can get something owned by user-root, group-root<br>
> with no world r/w to work unless there is some ACL structure (which I<br>
> don't want to understand or have to know the details of).<br>
<br>
</div>Well, I don't understand it either. As it worked for me I assumed<br>
nothing had changed. So much for me being up to date.<br>
<br>
... curious ...<br>
<br>
Hmmm, looks like the switch to ConsoleKit is related (at least partly)<br>
to fast user switching (ie: having more than one user logged in and<br>
swithing between them "fast" - never tried myself). See:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching</a><br>
<br>
Apparently simple device node permissions access would not be enough in<br>
those situations (from what little I understand).<br>
<br>
I still don't fully understand the mechanism used (it is ACL's, of<br>
course) but well, it seems to be working - apparently not always,<br>
though :-<<br>
<br>
Here's a long thread about it:<br>
<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=228110" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=228110</a><br>
If I had time I'd read it...<br>
<br>
Do a:<br>
<br>
getfacl /dev/snd/*<br>
<br>
(part of the acl package) to see who _really_ has access to the sound<br>
devices...<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> I do believe based on experience that some reasonable percentage of<br>
> the folks trying out sound (and especially Jack) on a FC8 linux daw<br>
> are running into problems and giving up.<br>
<br>
</div>That's too bad but understandable. Anyway, let me know of problems and<br>
if they are within my power to fix I'll try...<br>
<br>
[MUNCH]<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> The Planet has really done a good job of helping people out over the<br>
> years. There is usually some type of workaround. The issue we're<br>
> currently facing is to explain to a Windows DAW user ( the average<br>
> user of a GL cards) the compelling reasons to switch to Linux. Have<br>
> PlanetCCRMA available is one of the reasons.<br>
<br>
</div>Well, there are many options available now, perhaps Planet CCRMA is no<br>
longer (if it ever was) the best for beginners.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> PS – one small off topic side note – Dave Marion had found that the<br>
> Gadget Labs cards can be clocked together even if they are in<br>
> different systems.<br>
<br>
</div>Hmmm, that should be true of any card that has an external clock input.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> This opens up the question of multiple Jacks on multiple systems. It<br>
> may be that multiple GL cards on multiple systems with sync'd clocks<br>
> may be the least expensive Wave Front Synthesis system when coupled<br>
> with several inexpensive 5.1 sound PC speakers.<br>
<br>
</div>Interesting thought... netjack perhaps? (it is included in newer svn<br>
versions of jack). There is still the issue of frame level synch of<br>
processes on different machines so that all audio is output at the<br>
exact same time in all of them, right?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
-- Fernando<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PlanetCCRMA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:PlanetCCRMA@ccrma.stanford.edu">PlanetCCRMA@ccrma.stanford.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma" target="_blank">http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>