[PlanetCCRMA] moving PlanetCCRMA to Fedora Extras?

[Andrew Longland-Meech]

> --__--__--
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:09:39 -0600
> From: "David Slimp" <rock808 at gmail.com>
> To: "Fernando Lopez-Lezcano" <nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [PlanetCCRMA] moving PlanetCCRMA to Fedora Extras?
> Cc: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU
> 
> I have not been able to get some packages (mplayer, lame)
> using apt with the CCRMA repos.... My guess is that you have
> not had time to build these... and Fedora people aren't going to
> be including them for legal reasons.
> 
> I'd be interested in helping out with whatever is needed to get
> these (and some other) packages in to the CCRMA repo, but
> will need some training on how to go about doing it.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/26/06, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <nando at ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 15:29 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote:
> > > Hey everyone, I've been using CCRMA for a long time now, although I
> > > wasn't too active on the mailing list.
> > >
> > > Anyway, there's something I've been thinking of for a while and I kind
> > > of like the idea: would it make sense to merge PlanetCCRMA into Extras?
> >
> > Of course...
> >
> > > There are already all kinds of packages in Extras. The music / sound
> > > packages would not be, by any means, out of place there.
> > >
> > > Also, I am not sure how much time Fernando has to maintain Planet, but I
> > > remember him complaining a while ago about lack of time. I don't know
> > > the current situation. In any case, Extras is a much bigger project and
> > > it's much less likely to run out of human resources (in terms of
> > > maintainers).
> >
> > It depends on whether the available maintainers are interested in audio
> > software or not. But of course the pool is bigger :-)
> >
> > > The biggest advantage of the move would be that it would make it much
> > > easier to distribute the workload to many more package maintainers.
> > > Having more maintainers means faster package updates when new software
> > > versions are released.
> > > I would be happy to maintain, say, LMMS, JACK and all plugins, Qjackctl
> > > and ZynAddSubFX, plus all the libraries required by them that are not
> > > already in Extras. Maybe also a couple of bigger packages such as
> > > Rosegarden. I like Hydrogen too.
> > > I was actually thinking to push the packages mentioned above to Extras
> > > regardless of the outcome of this proposal, but I feel it's pointless to
> > > do a redundant effort.
> >
> > It has been my intention for quite a while. I have even exchanged a few
> > emails about this with one of the members of the steering committe. I
> > still intend to do this but I have to jump through a few hoops to get
> > into the extras projects as a developer, I meant to do this last year
> > but I have not had time. I know that the "I don't have time" is starting
> > to be a little repetitive :-)
> >
> > > Another advantage of merging Planet into Extras is that Extras is by
> > > definition "clean" and that would reduce the incidence of the PRH Effect
> > > (Package Repository Hell) which is getting pretty annoying these days.
> >
> > Yes, of course, that is the case today because I have not been able to
> > "track" other repos as closely as I used to. I don't think Extras is
> > clean by design. I don't know where they stand today (I think the stance
> > is more friendly now) but at the beginning they achieved that
> > "cleanliness" by completely ignoring the existence of other
> > repositories. That is not to say that other repos now have to track
> > extras as it is "part of" fedora in a way so there should be less chance
> > of conflicts.
> >
> > > Another big plus is that this way the Planet packages will be much more
> > > deeply embedded into Fedora. Instead of having to enable a repository
> > > that they never heard about, people would be exposed to all the
> > > music/sound goodies by simply installing Fedora (Extras is enabled by
> > > default in yum). A much larger audience than the current one, which can
> > > only benefit everyone.
> >
> > There are some details that for now will make it difficult to have a
> > seamless integration.
> >
> > One is the kernel itself. While the fedora kernels (through improvements
> > in mainline) have been getting better in terms of latency - although it
> > has been a while I have tested one -, they are still far from what can
> > be achieved with Ingo's patches (ha, when they work, of course :-).
> >
> > Even with a Fedora kernel you would not get access to realtime
> > scheduling out of the box, you would have to enable that access by
> > editing a file in /etc/security, Planet CCRMA includes a patched pam
> > that has that enabled by default - I don't think you could/would have
> > that available in a general purpose distro like extras. So, for using
> > Jack I don't think Extras would be a "yum install whatever" solution, it
> > will involve some tweaking.
> >
> > > The merge doesn't have to happen in an instant. Instead, packages can
> > > migrate gradually, as individual maintainers step up and grab packages
> > > and push them through the approval process at Extras.
> > >
> > > Of course, a small number of packages may never migrate - things such as
> > > custom kernels. But that's OK, since those don't add essential
> > > functionality, they just enable convenient aspects.
> > > There are also packages with questionable licenses that will never be
> > > approved by Extras, but there's already a plethora of repos already
> > > taking care of all those packages and more.
> > >
> > > Well, I'm stepping down from the soapbox now and I'm listening.
> >
> > I agree with your assessment with the caveats mentioned above by both
> > you and me.
> >
> > I was thinking on first trying with a ladspa package to get the feel of
> > the whole extras process (it is not trivial), and then start with Jack -
> > the obvious first package that enables the inclusion of most of the
> > useful stuff...
> >
> > I had also started work on a build server and environment here at CCRMA
> > so that other PlanetCCRMA'lites could help me in the build process.
> > Maybe you would be interested in helping? (in addition of course of the
> > extras integration, both are not exclusive...)
> >
> > -- Fernando
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
I would also like to volunteer my services to help relieve some of the
time pressure from Fernando.  Also, like David, I would need a few
pointers, but this is something about which I've been meaning to learn
for a while now, so point away!

I'm not so sure merging the Planet into Fedora Extras is such a good
idea - might it not open up the possibility of some serious
inconsistencies and consequently troublesome support issues?  Surely the
point is that PlanetCCRMA is a set of packages that Fernando maintains
for his students at Stanford University, and the copy that he releases
to the rest of us in internet-land, and the support that he gives along
with this, is something that he does in his spare (ha, ha) time?  I
don't think we can expect Fernando to help support two, possibly
slightly different, versions of PlanetCCRMA, otherwise he'll never
sleep!

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Regards

Andrew