[CM] What motivated the change from CL to Scheme?

[Cian]

Orm recently merged my pull request that added support for the Mac, so jack
is no longer needed. I use cm-incudine on the Mac, and so far I haven't run
into any issues.

I wrote a blog post a while back which explains how to install commonmusic
and incudine on the Mac:
https://cianoc.github.io/2023/09/12/Installing.html

It's a little fiddly, but it's not a huge deal.

I mostly use CommonMusic for composed stuff, so I'm not sure how reliable
it is for livecoding. But I would guess if you're using
SuperCollider/CSound as a backend then it's fine. I've used MIDI a little,
but not enough to really stress it, so I can't speak to latency/jitter
issues. But again I'd guess it's probably fine.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 11:13 AM Brandon Hale <bthaleproductions at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ok, that seems like a decent motivation to switch to Scheme, since it is
> or was used in basic programming courses at universities anyway. But am I
> wrong to assume that this change created a rather incompatible version,
> i.e. all existing compositions based on CLOS, and the published papers and
> books about Common Music became virtually obsolete, and the way to compose
> with version 3 is significantly different than with version 2? Or do I have
> a misconception in this respect?
>
> If you need to run anything with Common Music 2, you can still get it to
> work...with incudine <https://incudine.sourceforge.net/>! I can also
> confirm, as someone who learned lisp with cm-incudine, that Taube's book
> "Notes from the Metalevel" works with cm-incudine, thanks to Orm
> Finnendahl's help. I use the cm-incudine system for my own endeavors, like this
> piece <https://youtu.be/i2BiwwZGtaA?si=24nDxuUqoMETOvr0> (hopefully it's
> okay to show a piece, not trying to advertise).
>
> Check out this link: https://github.com/ormf/cm-incudine to learn more.
> Cm-incudine relies heavily on Jack, so using it on Linux works the best,
> but I've gotten it to work on Macos before at work.
>
> I also wrote an installer for it for Arch Linux distros and a docker image
> that can work on any system that docker will run on, without the realtime
> audio support of course:
>
> https://github.com/brandflake11/install-cm-incudine
>
> https://github.com/brandflake11/cm-incudine-docker
>
> Brandon Hale
> On 11/9/23 9:49 AM, Rochus Keller wrote:
>
> @ Mike, Bil:
>
> Thank you both very much for your quick response and the interesting
> information.
>
> > Scheme is a somewhat easier language to learn and use ... I think the
> motivation was to simplify teaching computer music.
>
> Ok, that seems like a decent motivation to switch to Scheme, since it is
> or was used in basic programming courses at universities anyway. But am I
> wrong to assume that this change created a rather incompatible version,
> i.e. all existing compositions based on CLOS, and the published papers and
> books about Common Music became virtually obsolete, and the way to compose
> with version 3 is significantly different than with version 2? Or do I have
> a misconception in this respect?
>
> > if you are looking to use specifically Common Lisp for computer-based
> composition
>
> Actually I currently rather try to find out which language is best suited
> to represent music on a symbolic, compositional (not physical or sound
> design) level. I'm not sure Common Lisp or Scheme are the best solution,
> neither Python. SAL is an interesting approach, but essentially Scheme with
> a kind of Pascal syntax as far as I understand it.
>
> > so I wrote s7, starting with TinyScheme
>
> Can I conclude from this that your change from Lisp to Scheme and finally
> your own interpreter was an important reason for Common Music to follow?
>
> I had a look at S7 and its implementation which is impressive. Have you
> also experimented with threaded interpreters? Is the performance of the
> Scheme code an issue at all in this application domain?
>
> Best
>
> R.K.
>
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